Britt
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Post by Britt on Dec 24, 2014 0:13:14 GMT
Basic premise. Playing in a game that is a home built campaign, all PCs are NonHuman characters and around level 10 or 11.
Normally when starting from level 1, the Magic users are basically pointless, and the physical brawlers are the ones that can do everything, and at level 20, the physical brawlers are pointless in a fight, while the Magic users do everything. Has anyone else found the weird tipping point where you end up thinking "I should have gone with a magic user rather than a fighter," or figured out a way to maintain usefulness in a fight without dual classing as a Magic user?
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Post by Duckandroll on Dec 24, 2014 1:38:13 GMT
The truth is, you're absolutely right. 3.0, 3.5, and pathfinder all have this problem. At high levels a spellcaster has way more power and more options than a non-spellcaster. The first step is to realize that this really is the case, the core classes are not balanced at all. And other classes produced likewise arn't. The gaming community has identified that these classes fit into "tiers" of power and usefulness. And if you want the long explanation it's right: here
That link also includes recommendations about how to handle it, which include things like allowing characters with weaker classes to get more benefits, or even get two weak classes instead of 1 strong one, or just not allowing the strongest classes. The most important thing is to talk to your group and see what they want to do. If somebody accepts their class is weaker, and still wants to play it without any changes they they can do that, but it should be an informed decision. The other thing you can do is look for other classes. There are a ton of version 3.5 classes out there, a bunch of ones for pathfinder, and a huge supply of "Homebrew" classes made by people like me and you that are better balanced than the regular classes you'll find in the core rulebook. The other thing you can do to make it a bit easier, and one of the simplest fixes, is to give everyone and everything spell resistance equal to 10+their level. This gives spells a bigger chance to fail, though it doesn't entirely balance things out it's a good start. Hope this helps!
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lunias
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Post by lunias on Dec 24, 2014 6:47:32 GMT
Oddly enough my group of 2 (arcanist and shaman from the ACG) have nearly stomped every encounter with only a couple issues with grapples here and there. As it turns out, though they just got 3rd and 4th level spells respectively, they have hit a point where they don't quite have the SoS and SoD spells to instantly end a level-appropriate encounter anymore. They have taken to recruiting a martial NPC for a session to compensate. So oddly enough, martial types just be came relevant at Level 7. This is probably atypical, but interesting.
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stlaughter
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Post by stlaughter on Dec 28, 2014 6:15:10 GMT
I had never thought about it, but I like the idea of ensuring that it is an informed decision; really, they should tell you right out of the box that a Druid or Cleric at 20th level makes the rest of the party inconsequential, especially because, while Pathfinder toned it down some, they didn't actually fix the problem.
Sadly that link doesn't work for me- I'd love to read that forum post!
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Britt
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Post by Britt on Dec 28, 2014 15:19:45 GMT
brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf44e&topic=1002.0
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stlaughter
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Post by stlaughter on Dec 28, 2014 23:14:43 GMT
Thanks!
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thaviel
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Post by thaviel on Jan 16, 2015 1:32:01 GMT
brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf44e&topic=1002.0 just keep in mind that's the 3.5 version. example is that artificer is teir 1 there and they don't really do much in pathfinder to be honest. a good to bring things more in line is to remove the feat taxes brawlers get theworldissquare.com/feat-taxes-in-pathfinder/
also just be open with your group and let them decide how they want to approach the problem, this is a cop out cause it's always true but. if you want the party to be more risk taking and outgoing play a bunch of teir 3-5 classes. if you want to be gods among men then everyone should play teir 1-2. also keep in mind that combat is where most of tier listing comes from so it's really more of a roll play problem then a role play problem. no one in the fellowship of the rings complained that gandalf was able to do wicked tricks on his pipe and swing a sword well.
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